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Re: Transhumanism Skewered
by Ted Chiang on Tuesday April 18, @11:17AM
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| On the other hand, how often in history have the big decisions been made by the best of humanity? Who's making the big decisions right now? Is the current trend likely to change any time soon?
Not that I want to discourage anyone from writing about utopian futures. Now more than ever, the world needs idealists.
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Who guards the Guardians?
by Michael LaTorra on Tuesday April 18, @12:54PM
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Transhumanism as it currently exists is composed of the usual bunch of fallible human beings. This is acknowledged by the transhumanists themselves. Their saving grace, as it were, is not some false claim to perfection, but their aim to give fallible human beings future opportunities to overcome the sickness, old age, death and cramped capacities that nature has imbued us with.
Transhumanists want everyone to have the freedom to be self-determining, Karl. What you want is to empower a group of your chosen elite to be the Platonic Guardians of us all. Who might these be? In your words "the joyous...clear-eyed; the generous; those without regrets."
That's beautiful poetry. But like the ideal of Plato's Republic, its dangerously imprecise, unrealistic and potentially fascist.
I think we'd all be better off if the sort of democratic transhumanism advocated by the World Transhumanist Association were to empower us collectively, rather then privilege a few, to steer a course through the choppy waters of our posthuman future.
Regards,
Michael LaTorra
Board of Directors
World Transhumanist Association
www.transhumanism.org
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Re: Transhumanism Skewered
by D. Amato on Tuesday April 18, @02:20PM
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Good grief, Karl! And you call the "Transhumanist" pollyannaish????? When has the "joyous" or the "best" of humanity ever decided the fate of the future? Give me an historical precedent for your comment. I'd say it has been mostly the greedy and the grandios who end up making decisions for the rest of us.
The technological revolution/evolution is like a tsunami and I don't think you, or anybody, will be able to stop it short of the total destruction of civilization as we know it and a return to a time of squalid, cheap, and pitiful living. I do not romanticize the past nor create some noble savage ideal. Humanity is an unfinished equation. The future looks to be the most of interesting times. See you there.
D. Amato
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Re: Transhumanism Skewered
by Max Kaehn on Tuesday April 18, @10:55PM
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| I don’t see how the “rhetoric of extinction” is unique to transhumanists. Sure, many authors haven’t made much effort to address the ethical issues of their future; I don’t see much difference from humanity in general, which is having problems figuring out when it is and isn’t acceptable to starve, torture, and kill our fellow human beings. Is the “me, me, me” that Rubin decries really that big a change from the “me, me, me” of unsustainable development? He invokes the concepts of “justice” and “decency” as a check on behavior— but we don’t even have a consensus on what those mean.
Which is a pity, because solving some of the issues that will be brought up by advancing technology might clarify some of our problems today. If we can use nanotechnology to feed the hungry and cure the sick all over the planet, should we? What if we don’t need advanced technology to do that? When is a computer or genetically engineered life form complex enough to deserve treatment as a person? What happens when we apply those standards to creatures that already exist? If anyone can create weapons of mass destruction by running a program through a replicator, what should we do to keep them from attacking their neighbors? Should we treat sovereign nations any differently?
I think it would be wise of us to work out some of these issues before we create beings capable of applying those solutions to us. I’d prefer that any superintelligent beings get a start as highly ethical humans or at least have good cause to regard us as loving parents, but failing that, it’d be nice to have reasonable expectations that they would share our ethical standards... and we wouldn’t regret it.
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Re: Transhumanism Skewered
by Russell Wallace on Thursday April 20, @10:48AM
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| Karl Schroeder, author of Permanence? Excellent book, one of the most thought-provoking I've read in a long time.
So I am surprised to see you of all people advocate suppressing progress, because it seems to me that having written such a book, you must know - understand at a gut level, not just as an abstract concept - that evolution doesn't magically stop, that the current state of affairs isn't especially favored as an evolutionary optimum, that stopping progress will not result in stasis, but in decline and ultimately extinction.
Now, there is a small lunatic fringe among transhumanists who want to convert themselves into entities with the power of gods and morals and aesthetics somewhere between those of a bacterium and a theorem prover, and to the extent you are criticizing that philosophy I agree with you.
But "Who should decide? The joyous. --Those few among us who live in a state of grace" is equally alarming. As I think you are aware, handing total power to a ruling elite for the sake of an ideology is a proven recipe for disaster at best and hell at worst.
Which group should decide what the future will be? None! No group, no government, no "few... who live in a state of grace" are good or wise enough to be trusted with that sort of power. It's a decision for all of humanity - not by the "pick which untrustworthy political party gets the power" method, but by the emergent method of the market of ideas.
As it happens this meshes with reality, because if you ask people who actually work in the relevant fields, the current batch of predictions about imminent flying cars, moon bases, total cancer cures, electricity too cheap to meter etc are no more realistic than the last batch; it's going to be the work of generations - of the world, not just one corporation or nation - to bring any of this about. So no, let's not help them build our future. Let's help us build our future.
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